Gen vs Chun notes

NOTE: the following entry uses the old school American notation for attack button strength.

Jab, Strong, Fierce = light punch, medium punch and heavy punch;
Short, Forward, Roundhouse = light kick, medium kick, heavy kick

Also, keep in mind that this is not meant to be a genuinely comprehensive look at the match.

this is a header photo

Apropos of nothing, some thoughts on Gen vs Chun-Li in Alpha 3. This is all coming from the POV of someone who plays Gen, but any information works both ways.

The Basics:

Not a good match for Gen. IMO it’s 7:3 in Chun’s favor, and I seemed to be validated in that reading when I came across the following best-of-30 match set played by DARK and Chourin Kenji.

Why:

All of Chun’s moves beat all of Gen’s moves.

That’s an extreme oversimplification, but in general Gen has problems after being knocked down, against crossups, with anti-air, and with simple mixups. All of these situations, by the way, can lead into one another, and so disrupting and avoiding negative momentum is as much the problem then establishing positive momentum.

There is a de facto option select in Alpha 3 because of the guard meter system, even more than in other games with a similar feature: you do not have to hit your opponent to do damage. Because some characters and moves can drain the guard meter so quickly in this game, characters with high-priority attacks in particular can throw them out when in range of the opponent, and there is a real benefit, whether or not the attack hits for damage or is blocked (resulting in guard damage). This is one of Chun-Li’s strongest points in Alpha 3, and Gen’s inability to defend himself stands out in bold relief.

In addition to guard crash/crush resulting in a vulnerable state like a dizzy, guard damage is compounded because each time your guard is broken, your guard meter is shorter for the remainder of the round. Contrary to stun damage, once it happens the first time, the threshold is lowered by ~25% consecutively. See video at 01:33 for an extreme example.

Going deeper, once the player realizes that they cannot block, they will start trying to counter and avoid attacks, and thus end up getting hit. Trying to jump away after being pushed into the corner could result in being hit with an early sweep and being knocked back down into a bad situation. Trying to interrupt a string of attacks can result in being hit on a counter hit for even more damage. Trying to do a ground recovery after being hit out of the air to avoid wakeup pressure can result in a low hit canceled into a special move into another knockdown, etc. Doing an Alpha Counter shortens your guard meter for the rest of the round, and blocking can result in either continuing to take guard damage (which translates into real damage), or being thrown, resulting in another reset of the situation, from a worse position.

The key to defense in this case is being aware of position, because some characters have limited defensive options once the opponent has gotten close to them.

This match is definitely winnable, though Gen will generally have to know the match better than Chun.  I think, played optimally, you could say that it approaches being 6:4 in Chun-li’s favor instead of 7:3.
 

Problems with Defense

Bad news: Gen has no invincible anti-air like shoto DP, so wakeup games can be a real problem. Also, Chun is good at capitalizing off of knockdowns and has good pokes, and does high damage and stun.

Good news: Gen has anti-air options, even if his wakeup options are limited. He has a few normal moves which are really useful, and he can change his position on-screen more easily than many other characters, because of his varying abilities in his different stances.

 

Anti-air:

The problem: Chun’s jumping Short is a terror, and also happens to cross up. Bllocking a jump in means blocking whatever comes after it, which means taking heavy guard damage, or regular damage. If this situation results in a knockdown (ie. If you’re hit by a string of attacks that ends in a sweep etc), this situation can reset itself into a loop; crossup j.SK, close standing FP into c.RK works as a blockstring and also works or if the sweep actually hits. Chun can also do her neckbreaker move (d/f+RK) which comes from overhead and can catch you by surprise if you’re not used to dealing with it.

Solutions: On the bright side, Gen has three or so different anti-air options to choose from vs Chun. Unfortunately, you have to be sure to use the right one for the right situation, or you’re going to cede your position and and take damage.

Here is a approximation of the various anti-airs Gen has vs Chun, and their ranges. The range is measured from the position of Chun’s front foot.

anti air

Gen can cover a pretty wide area vs Chun, as he can vs many characters, because of his crouching Fierce and his DP (Gekirou, dp+K). When closer, he change to his kick stance and use crouching Roundhouse  All of these must be done fairly early, because all of the attacks have a certain amount of startup time.

Chun’s jumping Short is assumed as it’s the most problematic, and it’s assumed that she is jumping towards Gen. The ranges are generally sound, but the Gen’s DP in particular is going to have less range otherwise, less overlap with the black area.

Gen’s crouching Fierce in his kick stance also works and the move does double damage if it lands on a counter hit. The range is similar to the black area of his other c.FP, but is shorter and would have less overlap with the white area.

Crossups Gen can’t do much about after the fact (ie. on wakeup), though you can try to super (see below). But vs crossup attempts from a standing/crouching position you have 2 options:

  1. You can know the range and get out of the way if necessary. Walk forward, do the snake roll (Ja’sen, charge b, f+p in kick stance), chicken block (jump and immediately air block, with the option to do a ground recovery (KK roll) afterward).
  2. Super with the rush super in Gen’s punch stance (Zan’ei, qcfx2+p in punch stance). This is a risky option because the height at which it works is somewhat exact, and so if you mistime it (whiff or only get one hit), you’re out super meter. And because Chun does more more damage hit-for-hit than Gen and has an easier time getting in, losing super meter means losing a lot of your damage potential.

 

Air to Air:

The Problem:
Jump Short

Red = hitting, Blue = vulnerable, green = pushable

Chun’s jumping Short is even more problematic. It sticks out in front of her and has an invulnerable area underneath her front leg. Because of the height of her jump, you are very frequently in the lower-front danger zone, and bad things can happen if she hits you and it’s a counter hit.

Solutions: positionally, you don’t really want to jump when she’s going to jump, unless you can get above her. If that’s the case, from Gen’s kick stance you can do any of Gen’s jumping punches and then juggle on counter hit for more damage and/or the level 1 divekick super (Kouga, qcbx2+k in the air, in kick stance). In punch stance, you can do jumping Jab, and to a somewhat lesser degree, jumping Strong.

From closer quarters, the air throw can be very useful, but for the purpose of exactness you should be aware that Gen’s throw area is around the middle of his body when jumping. It is functionally instant like most air throws, so it has good utility nonetheless- but it’s good to be aware of where the opponent’s body needs to be vertically as well as horizontally.

Strategically, you should generally discourage Chun from jumping at you, by way of bluffing that you always have a consistent anti-air. With that established, you will have more room to breathe and start offense.

 

Wakeup:

The problem: Gen has limited options because he has no invincible reversals except for level 2/3 supers, and he doesn’t even have use of those if he happens to have gotten knocked down in kick stance; you can’t change stances until a neutral state, meaning you can’t get knocked down in one stance and then do a reversal in another. Further, this allows Chun to get away with throws as a counter to blocking.

In general, you have to choose from a list of negative options:

Wakeup options

Vs Chun-Li’s… Gen Can… …But That Loses To…
Throw Option select throw tech (d/b+PP, results in whiffed crouch jab), DP or super, snake roll, jump Meaty or poke attacks (additional counter hit damage taken), or Chun can wait and punish depending on reversal
Meaty attacks, pokes Block, reversal super Still a loss (guard damage), blocking also loses to throw. Reversal supers can be blocked if baited
Wait/block and punish Jump Often a bad move in terms of position, and susceptible to anti-airs dependent on position

…which is all a rectangular way of saying that you’re in a bad position during wakeup.

Shotos and other characters with wakeup DPs or invulnerable reversals have a move which covers 2/3rds of the traditional rock/paper/scissors wakeup game- attack, throw, block. Gen doesn’t really have that, and he is thus more susceptible all options because Chun has more incentive to attack.

Solutions: See above chart. The only options here are to make the best of a bad situation, though you can try to optimize damage; if doing a crouching throw tech, try to chain the jab into a chain or a super in case it hits. You can also crouch tech with the hundred hand slap (Hyaku renkou, mash p rapidly in punch stance). If you choose to DP, make sure you either get all of the hits to make it worth the damage, or know your options for canceling early- baiting and punishing a ground recovery, or going for a crossup afterward, etc. After choosing to block, Chun will be pushed slightly out of position. You do have to watch out for Chun’s overhead axe kick, etc.

The touch of death super (Shitenshuu, qcbx2+p in punch stance) will avoid both throws and attacks, is safe if blocked and is useable at level 1. However, the opponent can recovery in time if they did a quick attack like a Jab or Short. Level 2 is functionally faster, but less worth the meter. The rush super has many potential follow-ups for it- many juggles, air throw, switch to kick stance during mid animation and do a jumping light kick ASAP to catch air recovery etc. Here is an advanced tactics video for Gen by ITGM which showcases many follow-ups. Also keep in mind that you can use supers in between poke strings, ie. if Chun does close standing Fierce and follows it with a crouching Roundhouse.

You have the option to Alpha Counter any blocked attack, but you do so at your own risk.

Strategically and positionally, you want to avoid being pushed into the corner, as this exacerbates many of the wakeup problems Gen has, because the situation will reset itself more easily- you are more likely to have to block more things and more likely to be thrown, more likely to be hit while avoiding either of those other things, and have fewer options.

Offense and move interaction notes (misc):

Most of Gen’s jumping attacks lose to Chun’s crouching Roundhouse, though you can use the level 1 divekick super. But note the difference between the hitbox of Gen’s jumping Forward and Roundhouse in his punch stance:

jumping Forward and Roundhouse(image taken from the zero 3 fighters generation wiki)

Despite having an identical animation frame, the hitboxes are noticeably different- this is often true in A3, and I assume other Street Fighter games where different attacks share the same sprites.

Gen’s jumping Roundhouse (on the right side in the picture above) will beat with Chun’s crouching Roundhouse if done with the right timing and position: a little early and a little far. The Forward (above, left) will lose, like many of Gen’s other attacks. This changes the match dramatically.

Gen can interrupt Chun’s s.FP into c.RK poke string by doing a standing Strong in between in his punch stance. Optional cancel to super etc.

X-ISM Chun has the option of doing her Spinning Bird Kick as anti-air or even as a poke etc, because it has a very wide invulnerability window on startup. If she does this move from far enough away, you can punish with his crouching Fierce in kick stance for heavy damage.

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1 Comment

  1. Sans

    These analysis are amazing!! i’m an avyd Gen player and it’s hard to fin this kind of texts

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